WEBMASTER wrote:
MuHtaramah
Naheed Verk Saahibah,

Aadaab o Tasleemaat,


Aapke sawaal kaa javaab yeh hei ke kisi beHr meiN agar izaafi rukn isteAmal kiye jaayeN tou usko mustazaad kehte heiN.

Aapka kehnaa hei ke aap ne jo vazn isteAmaal kiyaa hei wo hei faa'i'lun 5 martabah. Chaliye aapka maTlaA dekhte heiN:

waqt kii reit se guzre pal chaanti rehti hooN
waqt kii re = muf'ta'ilun = =/0///0 =2112

Ab aap hii bataayiye ke faa'i'lun kaa vazn kahaaN se aagayaa.

Aap ne poochaa ke maiN ne jis beHr meiN aapki ghazal ko tabdeel karnaa chaaha wo kaunsi beHr hei. Jee isko beHr-e-meer kehte heiN mere ilm ke muTaabiq.

Asl mauzooA MuHtaram Sarwar Saahib ne cheRaa thaa aur ab maiN unke hii Havaaleh kartaa hooN.

YooN samajhleejiye keh mujhe aapki ghazal per koii iAtiraaz nahiN hei. MaiN ne aapki ghazal per is se pahle jou kuch bhii likhkhaa hei usko bhool jaayiye.


AApka Mukhlis,
Nazir.

MuHtaramah
Naheed Verk Saahibah

Tasleemaat,

Aap ne likhkhaa hei:

aap ke jawaab kaa buhat buhat shukriya!

aap kee post se kuch aisaa taacur milaa jaisey aap ne meree kisee baat kaa buraa maanaa ho, agar aisee baat hai tau maiN anjaane meN huyee ghalatee kee mu'aafi chaahati hooN.
meraa maqsad tau baat ko saaf taur se samajhnaa thaa aur mere khayaal se maiN ye hi taacur bhee paish kar rahi hooN. ummeed hai ke aap meree baat ko samajh jaayeN ge.

aap ne meree ghazal ke maqte' kee jo taqtee' kee hai, voh kuch yooN hai:
waqt kii reit se guzre pal chaanti rehti hooN
waqt kii re = muf'ta'ilun = =/0///0 =2112

aap kee iss taqtee' ke mutaabiq aap ne :kee: ko 1 ke vazn par rakhaa hai,
magar jahaaN tak maiN samajhti hooN :kee: ko 1 yaa 2 donoN ke vazn par baaNdhaa jaa saktaa hai,
micaal ke taur par Parvin Shakir kee aik ghazal kaa matla' haazir hai:
"justajoo khoye huvoN kee umr bhar karte rahe"
chaaNd ke himraah hum har shab safar karte rahe"
iss she'r ke 1st misre' meN :kee: ko 2 ke vazn par baaNdhaa geyaa hai.

issi liye mere zehn meN mere iss misre' kee behr yooN banti hai:
waqt kii reit se guzre pal chaanti rehti hooN
waqt kii = 212
reit se = 212
guzre pal = 212
ch`aanti = 212
rehti hooN = 212

yahaaN par maqsood koyee bad.mazgee pedaa karnaa naheeN hai balke aik ilmee behc ke zariye apne ilm meN izaafah karnaa hai.
maiN mamnoon hooN gee jo agar aap meree baat kaa jawab de deN tau.

buhat shukriya
Naheed

naheedv wrote:aadaab,

buhat din ke ba'd aik ghazal le kar mehfil meN haazir huyee hooN jisey aap sab kee samaa'toN kee nazr karti hooN, iss umeed ke saath ke apni raaye se aagaah farmaa kar shikriya kaa moqa' deN ge.

aaraa kee muntazir
Naheed

[ROMAN]

1.
vaqt kee ret se guzre pal ch`aanti rehtee hooN
uss kee khushboo kee sargoshiyaaN dh`ooNDati rehtee hooN
2.
mere chehre pe voh jin se ch`aa'oN kiyaa kartaa thaa
uss kee palkoN kee voh aahaTeN khojatee rehtee hooN
3.
kyoN thakan see utar aayee hai mere lehje meN ab
aaNkh kee surkhiyoN se yahee poochatee rehtee hooN
4.
dh`iyaan meN haiN abhee uss ke lehje kee sab vehshateN
maiN unhee vehshatoN meN sukooN DhooNDatee rehtee hooN
5.
lamHa dar lamHa mujh ko voh bhee toRataa rehtaa hai
lamHa dar lamHa khud ko maiN bhee joRatee rehtee hooN
6.
uljhaa rehtaa hai apne khayaaloN meN akcar voh bhee
maiN saNjeedagee auRhe kuch sochtee rehtee hooN
7.
uss ke hoNtoN se jo sun naheeN paatee :Naheed: maiN
uss kee aaNkhoN se akcar wohi poochatee rehtee hooN

WEBMASTER wrote:
MuHtaramah
Naheed Verk Saahibah

Tasleemaat,



Sab se pahle Arz kartaa chalooN ke maiN aap se bilkul naaraaz nahiN hooN aur nah mujhe naaraaz hounaa chaahiye. Albattah, in dinaoN meri masroofiyat is qadar baRhgaiee hei ke tafseeli tabaadila-e-khayaal kaa waqt nahiN miltaa. Is liye maiN pahle hii se is mas'aleh ko nahiN cheRnaa chaahtaa thaa. Yeh mas'alah uThaane waale asl meiN MuHtaram Sarwar Saahib heiN jinko chaahiye ke wo tafseeli guftagu kareN.

Doosrii baat yeh ke maiN aapki ghazal ko beHr meiN laane kii koushish karne ke liye muAafii kaa khwaastgaar hooN kyunkeh aisaa karne kaa mujhe koii Haq nahiN thaa.

kaa, kii, ke aur doosre alfaaz jinka aakhiri harf giraayaa jaataa hei uska asli vazn agar 2 hei tou 2 hii houtaa hei lekin doosra harf girne kii vajah se 1 houjaataa hei.

Pahle beHr kaa taAyyun kiyaa jaataa hei. Jaise aap ne Parveen Shakir
kaa maTlaA likhkhaa hei:
"justajoo khoye huvoN kee umr bhar karte rahe"
chaaNd ke himraah hum har shab safar karte rahe

Is beHr kaa naam hei beHr-e-ramal MeHzoof. Iski asl beHr kaa vazn tou houtaa hei faa'ilaa'tun (4 baar). Is per jab Hazf ke zeHaaf kaa acar paRtaa hei tou aakhiri rukn "faa'i'laa'tun" ke aakhiri sabab-e-khafeef "tun" ko Hazf kardiyaa jaataa hei. Aur phir beHr ko Ramal Salim kii bajaye use beHr-e-ramal meHzoof kaa naam diyaa jaataa hei.

Ab aapke mazkoor maTleA ko dekhte heiN.
Justajoo khou = faa'i'laa'tun = /0//0/0 = 2122
ye'houvaouN kee = faa'i'laa'tun=/0//0/0= 2122
umr bhar kar = faa'i'laa'tun = /0//0/0 = 2122
te rahe = faa'i'lun=/0//0 = 212

YahaaN aapka kehnaa bilkul bajaa hei ke "kee" kii aavaz = "tun" =2 hei.

Ab is misreA ko ham yooN karke dekhte heiN:
(justajoo meiN unki ham do saal tak phirte rahe"

BeHr tou vohi hei (faa'i'laatun...faa'ilaatun...faa'ilaatun...faa'ilun
Lekin taqTeeA yooN hougi:
justajoo meiN = faa'ilaatun = /0//0/0 = 2122
un k'ham do = faa'ilaa'tun = /0//0/0 = 2122
saal'tak phir = faa'i'laa'tun = /0//0/0 = 2122
te rahe = faa'i'lun = 212

Ab yahaaN dekhiye doosre rukn meiN kii se "ilaa" kaa hissah shurooA hourahaa hei. ilaa = //0. Aur kee keh Harf "ye" ko giraane kii ijaazut hei is liye uska vazn yahaaN hei = 1.

Iske Alaawah jis beHr meiN ijaazut hou ke aap faa'i'laa'tun kii bajaye fa'i'laatun (baghair alif ke) isteAmal kareN tou yeh farq housaktaa hei:
faa'i'laatun = /0//0/0 = 2122
lekin ijaazut ke muTaabiq badal deN tou:
fa'i'laa'tun = ///0/0 = 1122.
===========

Dar asl taqTeeA maktoobah kalimaat kee nahiN houti balke malfoozah kii houtii hei. Agar taqTeeA meiN koii niraalaa rukn laayeN tou aisaa karnaa ghalaT hei. Macalan aek shakhs kahe muf'taf'ee'lun tou ham koushish karte heiN ke uske muqabil koii aisa rukn aaye jisko afaa'Aeel-e-haft gaanah meiN shaamil samjhaa gayaa hei (yaa ba'z aise dawaayir meiN se hou) jin meiN nayii Arooz meiN maan liyaa gayaa hei. Tafseel likhne kii yahaaN gunjaayish nahiN hei.

faa'i'laatun kii bajaye fa'i'laa'tun isteAmal karne kii ijaazut ke liye aek micaal pesh hei:
Mumin ka MaTlaA hei:
"Mujhko tere itaab ne maaraa
yaa mire izTiraab ne maaraa"
= faa'ilaa'tun.... mafaa'ilun....fe'lun
=/0//0/0...//0//0.../0/0 =2122...1212...22

Isi ghazal meiN aek sheAr yooN hei:
"lab-e-maigooN pah jaan dete heiN
hameN shauq-e-sharaab ne maaraa"

dounoN misreA shurooA hourahe heiN "fa'ilaa'tun" se jiski ijaazut hei.

Ilm-e-Arooz itni vusAat rakhtaa hei, ke maiN khud ko aek maAmooli saa Taalib-e-ilm samajhtaa hooN.
======

Achchaa ab aap apni ghazal ke baare meiN MuHtaram Sarwar Saahib se mashwirah kareN tou behtar hougaa.

MaiN apni bepanaah masroofiyat ke sabab ziyaadah waqt nahiN de saktaa jiske liye maAzirat khwaah hooN. Shukriya.


Nazir.

WEBMASTER wrote:
MuHtaramah
Naaheed V. Saahibah,


Aadaab, 8)

Aap ne likhkhaa hei:

(((iss ilmee beHc ke baa.vajood mere sawaal kaa jawaab mujhe abhii tak naheeN mil sakaa hai, aur iss ke liye maiN janaab Sarwar saahab se guzaarish kartee hooN ke voh agar mumkin ho tau iss par kuch roshani Daalen. )))

MaiN aapke saath saath jab itni door aagayaa hooN tou chaliye aapko apne muqaam tak pahonchaadooN. Aap ne kahaa hei ke aapko apne sawaal kaa javaab nahiN milaa. Mujhe bhii tou maAloom hou ke woh sawaal kyaa hei taakeh uska javaab Sarwar Saahib kii tashreeH paRhkar samajh sakuN. Mujhe ummeed hei ke aap apne giraaNqadr sawaal se mujhe mustafeed houne kaa mauqaA dengi.


Aapka Mukhlis,
Nazir.

naheedv wrote:

WEBMASTER wrote:
MuHtaramah
Naaheed V. Saahibah,


Aadaab, 8)

Aap ne likhkhaa hei:

(((iss ilmee beHc ke baa.vajood mere sawaal kaa jawaab mujhe abhii tak naheeN mil sakaa hai, aur iss ke liye maiN janaab Sarwar saahab se guzaarish kartee hooN ke voh agar mumkin ho tau iss par kuch roshani Daalen. )))

MaiN aapke saath saath jab itni door aagayaa hooN tou chaliye aapko apne muqaam tak pahonchaadooN. Aap ne kahaa hei ke aapko apne sawaal kaa javaab nahiN milaa. Mujhe bhii tou maAloom hou ke woh sawaal kyaa hei taakeh uska javaab Sarwar Saahib kii tashreeH paRhkar samajh sakuN. Mujhe ummeed hei ke aap apne giraaNqadr sawaal se mujhe mustafeed houne kaa mauqaA dengi.


Aapka Mukhlis,
Nazir.

mohtaram Nazir saahab,
aadaab,

aap ke jawaab ke liye shukr guzaar hooN.

dar asl ye saare behc jo hum ne behr ke hawaale se kee hai, iss meN hum be :kee: ke vazn ko tau saamne rakh liyaa magar aik baat jo maiN ne shuroo meN jaanne kee koshish kee thee voh ye thee ke kyaa hum faa.i.lun/212 ke 5 arkaan aik misre' meN baaNdh sakte haiN yaa naheeN.

agar aap ne iss kaa jawaab diyaa hai tau maiN ma'zarat chaahooN gee ke meree samajh meN naheeN aa sakaa aur maiN hunooz uljhan kaa shikaar hooN.

jawaab ke liye paishagee shukriya qubool kijiye!

What a pity ----------- this discussion is stretching beyond seams but still it's going nowhere!

I wish that Sarwar saahib, whom Naazir saahib has referred to so many times in this discussion and in whose mastery of the subject Naheed saahiba (and I too!) have so much confidence intervenes here and gives his learned opinion on this ever-so-confused-and-ever-so-confusing discussion; otherwise, may be, I'll volunteer to try to straighten the matter out -------- but only if both the parties wish so!

Raj Kumar

naheedv wrote:
1.
vaqt kee ret se guzre pal ch`aanti rehtee hooN
uss kee khushboo kee sargoshiyaaN dh`ooNDati rehtee hooN
2.
mere chehre pe voh jin se ch`aa'oN kiyaa kartaa thaa
uss kee palkoN kee voh aahaTeN khojatee rehtee hooN
3.
kyoN thakan see utar aayee hai mere lehje meN ab
aaNkh kee surkhiyoN se yahee poochatee rehtee hooN
4.
dh`iyaan meN haiN abhee uss ke lehje kee sab vehshateN
maiN unhee vehshatoN meN sukooN DhooNDatee rehtee hooN
5.
lamHa dar lamHa mujh ko voh bhee toRataa rehtaa hai
lamHa dar lamHa khud ko maiN bhee joRatee rehtee hooN
6.
uljhaa rehtaa hai apne khayaaloN meN akcar voh bhee
maiN saNjeedagee auRhe kuch sochtee rehtee hooN
7.
uss ke hoNtoN se jo sun naheeN paatee :Naheed: maiN
uss kee aaNkhoN se akcar wohi poochatee rehtee hooN

Naheed saahiba:

aap ki is Ghazal par kaafi kheeNcha-taani ho rahi hai keh is ki baihr kyaa hai? aap ke irshaad ke mutaabiq, is ki baihr hai:

faa'ilun faa'ilun faa'ilun faa'ilun faa'ilun
212 212 212 212 212

is silsile meiN, meri jaanib se do-aek baateN arz haiN:

1. yeh baihr, baRi had tak, Ghair-maanoos hai --- albatta, agar arkaan ka ko'i bhi 'combination' rhythmic ho, ya'ani-k sur-taal ka haamil ho, to hameN us 'combination' ko baihr kehne se katraana naheeN chaahiye!

2. ain mumkin hai k yeh baihr Arabi-Faarsi ki kitaaboN meiN na milti ho, taaham ise rhythmically paRhaa jaa sakta hai aur sur-taal ke saath gungunaaya bhi jaa sakta hai!

3. aap is baihr ki deegar misaaleN naheeN de sakeeN ---------- jab-k mujhe sareehan yaad hai k janaab-e-Dawood Rizwan saahib ne Urdustan par aek Ghazal AIN isi baihr meiN post ki thi aur, us ki baihr ko pehchaan kar, maiN ne un ke aek misre ki Ghalati ki jaanib ishaara bhi kiyaa tha! unhoN ne apni Ghazal ke vuhii arkaan bataaye the jo aap ne bataaye haiN aur, mere PM ke ba'ad, unhoN ne Ghalat misre ki tas_heeh bhi kar li thi!!

For the sake of record, un ki Ghazal ka matla tha:

aek aatish-fishaaN Khud meiN khaulaa hu'aa dekhnaa
barf kaise pighalne lagii, kyaa hu'aa, dekhnaa

Precisely --------------- 212 212 212 212 212

4. sur-taal ki baat vaazeh karne ke liye, aap note kareN k agar is rukn ko teen martaba barta jaaye to bhi aek baihr banti hai, jis ki aek misaal yeh Khoobsoorat she'r hai:

yeh Khudaa'ii ka da'ava hai kyooN?
aap kab se Khudaa ho gaye?

aur agar chaar baar barta jaaye to bhi aek jaani-pehchaani baihr banti hai, jis ki misaal Naazir saahib ka diyaa hu'aa yeh misra-e-tarah hai:

aap bhii mujh pe tohmat lagaane lage!

5. ab agar isi misre ko yooN baRhaa diyaa jaaye:

aap bhii mujh pe tohmat lagaane lage! aap bhii?

to yeh misra har lihaaz se sur-taal ka haamil hoga aur ain usi baihr meiN hoga jis baihr meiN aap ne tab'a-aazmaa'ii ki hai!

maana k yeh baihr Ghair-maanoos hai aur bahut kam musta'amal hai ------- magar mujhe ise baihr kehne meiN ko'i dushvaari mehsoos naheeN ho rahi!

6. aap ki Ghazal ki samaasaya yeh hai k aap ne alfaaz kuchh aise barte haiN jo is baihr par poore to utarte haiN magar un ki madad se baihr ki shinaaKht naheeN ho paati! agar ko'i misra aisa hota, jaise

be-basii be-kasii be-dilii be-hisii be-kalii
yaa phir
husn kii be-basii, ishq kii be-kalii dekhiye

to baihr fauran vaazeh ho jaati!

[Please note that I am not saying that you should have used such misras in your Ghazal --------- all I am doing is to give an example to illustrate the dire situation that has baffled so many of your readers!]

7. Having said all that, I must say that, while a good majority of your misras conform to this baihr, there are at least 2 or 3 places where some words have been used in a manner that I feel is not right. I think, those places need a second look!

bas, mujhe yihi kehna tha. I hope, my comments are of some help!

Raj Kumar

WEBMASTER wrote:
MuHtaramah
Naheed Verk Saahibah],


Aadaab oTasleemaat,

Aapke sawaalaat mutanavvuA kaifiyat ikhtiyaar karte gaye.
1) BeHr ke mauzooN houne nah houne ke baare meiN.
aur phir aapka yeh istidlaal ke aap ne faa'I'lun 5 martabah isteAmal kiyaa hei. 2) kiyaa vazn meiN izaafi rukn kaa isteAmal karnaa jaayiz hei,
3) kaa, kii, ke kaa vazn 2 or 1.

Iske bad yeh kahaa gayaa ke hanouz aapko apne sawaal kaa javaab nahiN milaa. Poochne per aap ne sawaal No.1 ko duhraayaa.

Ab aap agar ghaur kareN ke maiN aapko mandarja-e-zel ibaarat likh chukaa hooN tou aap yeh kaise kahengi ke aapko apne sawaal kaa javaab nahiN milaa.
(((Aapke sawaal kaa javaab yeh hei ke kisi beHr meiN agar izaafi rukn isteAmal kiye jaayeN tou usko mustazaad kehte heiN.))

Agar aap yeh kehtieeN aapko is silsileh meiN mazeed maloomaat darkaar heiN tou aapki baat soulah aane durust houti.

Chaliye ab tou mere muHtaram doust jou bahut hii tajribeh kaar heiN wo bhii in bikhri houii ibaarataoN ko tarteeb denaa chaahte heiN tou is se baRhkar khushii kii baat kyaa housakti hei.

Iske bavajood kiyunke abhi tak on the point guftagu karne se Sarwar Saahib aur doosre aHbaab gurez karrahe heiN, maiN apni naaqis ilmi Hudood ke andur rehte houe aapki rizaamandi aur tasalli ke liye kuch arz karne meiN jhijak nahiN meHsoos kartaa:
=====
Rasm o riyaayat ke Taur per Khalil Ibn-e-Ahmed Al-Faraaheedi aur Akhfash ko ilm-e-Arooz ke moojidaoN meiN maanaa gayaa hei. Unke daryaaft kardah arkan aur beHraoN ko bunyaadi daryaaft.

Iske b'ad, kuch izaafati beHreN bhii daryaaft houeeN aur unko saheeh maan liyaa gayaa. B'az beHraoN meiN arkaan kii nayi shakleN daryaaft kii gaieeN jinke ibraahimi daayire banaaye gaye. Ikhtilaaf ke bavajood is nayii daryaaft ko bhii yaksar rad nahiN kiyaa jaasakaa.

In sab baataoN ke madd0e0nazar ham aapke sawaal kaa mukhtasar javaab yehi samajhte heiN ke agar kisi beHr meiN uski behr ke aek do arkaan kaa izaafah kiyaa jaaye tou usko mustazad kehte heiN. Micaal ke Taur per aek beHr hei BeHr-e-MuqtaZab maTvi maqtooA mucamman jiska vazn hei:
"faa'I'laa'tu … maf'oo'lun………faa'I'laa'tu…. Maf'oo'lun
=/0//0/…/0/0/0………./0//0t…. /0/0/0
=2121… 222………… 2121 …. 222
Is vazn ko mustazaad kii shakl meiN isteAmal karne ke liye maiN ne yooN kardiyaa hei:
=2121…222 .. 2121 … 222 …2121 … 222
aur is per meraa maTlaA yooN hei:
yaas ke andheraoN meiN ik charagh jaltaa hei yaad-e-yaar baaqi hei
saans aati jaati hei, dil dhaRaktaa rhetaa hei, intizaar baaqi hei.

Nateejeh ke Taur per agar is silsileh meiN ham is sawaal ko apnaa meHvar banaakar mazeed tafseel meiN raushni Daalnaa chaaheN tou khaaskar mere ilm meiN izaafah hougaa.
=====
Doosra Tareeqa-e-fikr o nazar yeh housaktaa hei saari guzri hoii baataoN ko nazar andaaz karte houe naye sare se tabaadila-e-khayaal kiyaa jaaye jis ke liye maiN phir MuHtaram Sarwar Saahib kaa naam loongaa aur Rajkumar Saahib kii m'aloomaat se mustafeed hounaa chaahoongaa jin se arsa-e-daraaz se meHroom hooN.


Aapka Mukhlis,
Nazir.[/i]

agar aap ne iss kaa jawaab diyaa hai tau maiN ma'zarat chaahooN gee ke meree samajh meN naheeN aa sakaa aur maiN hunooz uljhan kaa shikaar hooN.

maiN aap ke tafseelee jawaab ke liye tahe dil se mamnoon hooN.
mujhey pooraa yaqeen hai ke aap ke tabsare se mere saath saath aur buhat se dostoN kaa bhee bhalaa huvaa ho gaa.
maiN umeed karti hooN ke aise ilmee behc mustaqbil meN bhee hamaare ilm meN izaafe kaa sabab banti rahe gee.

iss behc ke ikhtitaam par aik dilchasp baat sunaati chalooN.
aaj se kuch saal qabl jab maiN Computer Science meN apnee UNDER GRADUATE kar rahee thee tau meree "Data Structure" kee class ke jo Professor the voh mashaa'Allah se CS meN PHD thay (aur pore CS Department meN un kee knowledge aur un ke ro'b.o.dabdabe kaa Dankaa boltaa thaa. ) aur un ke paRhaane kaa jo style thaa voh aisaa thaa ke achaa khaasa baNdah bhee confuse ho ke reh jaaye aur class khatm ho jaane ke ba'd yahi sochtaa rahe ke aaj hum ne claas meN kyaa paRhaa hai?
dar.asl un ke jo paRhaane kaa aNdaaz thaa voh PHD level kaa hee thaa aur hum Tehre Undergrad. khair semester ke shuroo kaa aik mahina tau un ke lectures mere sar ke oopar se hee guzarte rahe, lekin wahaaN qusoor meree kam.ilmee kaa tau thaa hee magar uss ke saath saath mere un Professor kaa bhee qusoor thaa, kyoN ke voh students ke level ko saamne rakh kar apne lectures naheeN dete thay balke voh ye samajhte thay ke chooNke voh khud PHD heN tau voh saaree baateN/ilm jo un ke andar samaayaa huvaa hai, uss se hamaaree bhee aashnaayee ho gee, haalaaNke hum tau abhee Data Structre kee "alif, be" samajh rahe haiN.

iss micaal se maqsood sirf ye hai ke aap ne sab baateN vaazeH keeN magar aap ne jo techincal terms iste'maal keeN, un se baat mazeed ulajh gayee iss liye meree samajh meN n aaa sakaa aur iss ke liye maiN ma'zarat chaahooN gee.

aik baar phir aap ke vaqt aur tajziye ke liye mamnoon hooN.

mukhlis
Naheed